3...2...1.. Capoeira FIGHT?!

[Bolinha]

Hm.. Remember our past discussion regarding Capoeira being in the olympics?... and how a lot of us do not agree with the idea as it destroys everything about capoeira.

So browsing online I find this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMwz5tV6Y-I&feature=channel

What is your opinion on "point-fighting" capoeira??

[Bicudo]

This is one of the worst displays I have ever seen in my life. This it what happens when people want to fuse olympic karate syle of fighting with everything. You cannot point fight in just any martial art. Thats why there's a hug diference between point fighting karate or olympic taekwondo and traditional karate and TKD. Point fighting tends to "water down " a martial art to a point where the practitioner is no longer able to utilize all of his skills and tools because some techniques are deemed illegal. Moreover point fighting focuses to much on hitting the person for the sake of scoring a point and not enough time on perfecting and properly appying the technique being used. Capoeira at its true core is applied science, its a game of chess. So I ask you now what are we truly left with when science is no longer properly applied, when a form of art becomes a race to score points and an intriguing game of chess becomes sadly a boring game of tag.
- Bicudo-

[Bolinha]

O_o

Wow... Thnx for replying :D I have to agree with what you have written.. the games looks soooo messy and I just cringed watching the whole thing! Suddenly the technique of a movement is no longer important and the focus is just throwing kicks at the other opponent.

[Pixador]

Capoeira is amazing because the freedom. This wasn't very free.. It's like Bicudo said, "fuse Olympic karate".. That's what it looked like to me, some Tae-Bo type shit.. Definitely not good capoeira.. I'm not even sure "point-capoeira" is possible, but if it is it cannot be anything like this.. Not a lot of clinches, though, which I have seen in other similar.. "displays".
I'm sorry, I need to watch a better video, gotta erase those images..

[Chaleira]

??? Oh my, I can't even respond....what was that???

[PeRho]

Ola,,

hello guys HAPPY NEW YEAR to you all =)
May Jesus Bless you all & of course bless Capoeira..!! Amien.

anw, just want to share about what have you guys talked about!
i've also have saw the vid's that Bolinha recommende but mind please to see th link below:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5l8-X_PnJEc

what about this one?!..

[Chaleira]

Well, it certainly looks better than that previous video :-)
On another note, even though this isn't what capoeira is about "in todays society" Let us not forget that this isn't anything brand new to capoeira either. Capoeira fighting matches have been around probally since capoeira first began, and has always been one of many aspects of capoeira. Ofcourse the way we train capoeira today isn't for that ;-)

[Preguiça]

To Chaleira and PeRho's responses:
First to Chaleira's comment; Capoeira "matches" have not been around since capoeira first started. When it first started and from then on, there weren't matches. it got brutal and sometimes deadly when someone pulled a knife, but there was still a circle (roda) and a drum. Capoeira was started during slavery! There was no time and reason for matches. And when people fought with capoeira they fought to kill or seriously hurt the other person or to get away, and they did it quickly. In capoeira's history there have been "matches"; street matches and matches in the ring. But the matches in the ring were put on by overall fighting organizations not capoeira groups. Mestre Pastinha said "Capoeira, a sorcery done by slaves in the desire for FREEDOM, its principles have NO METHOD, its goal is inconceivable to the wisest of mestres." Just take a minute to think about what that means and how it relates to the video that Bolinha posted and that PeRho posted. Mestre Bimba said "Capoeira is wickedness/mischief."
What we see in these videos is not reflective of life as capoeira is. In life you won't always have a referee to stop things when they get too brutal or to stop the other person from attacking you while you're leaving the building. That is the reality of capoeira and the world. It is about the choices we make in life and the knowledge we gain, not senseless beating of another person.

To PeRho; the video you posted is just the same as the one Bolinha did. They people just weren't afraid to hit each other in the one you suggested. Lets look at the useless armadas and meia lua de frentes that these guys were throwing. They were no where near the other guy! That is a waste of energy, just something pretty with no use. That is not capoeira; the pretty things are still useful and dangerous. And why would you waste energy in a fight, when you know you might need it at the last moment when you are almost out of energy and might lose? These matches are way too objective and restricting of the FREE SPIRIT of capoeira. If people are going to do these competitions they should call it something other than capoeira.

Let me know what you think.

[Bicudo]

Dude i completely agree with Preguica. Although sparring is good to maintain the sharpness of a martial artists skills, it must be done with the utmost sense of reality and freedom, which clearly is not the case with these people. Like the great Bruce Lee once said "Like water, sparring should be formless. The combatant should be alive in sparring,and should not be a co-operative robot".
- Bicudo-

[Preguiça]

i replied to your comment PeRho at the same time as i did Chaleira's comment he wrote to you. check it out.

[Chaleira]

Thanks Preguica, you're right and a wrong choice of wording on my part. Match was a horrible choice of word. But I simply ment it was used for fighting through out it's history, but in the way you explained it above.

However I think "fighting" is what these modern day matches are somehow trying to recreate in a sense to show the aspect. But ofcourse it's not the same. It'll never be the same because of the various rules as you said. It takes away from true nature capoeira.

[Pavio]

i say, if you're gonna play rough, play like these guys:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UPgxdZW6CU

[Bruno]

Hahaha, I like that video Pavio. Specially, the guy who uploaded it wrote: Essa é para quem pensa que capoeira é dansa. For those who think capoeira is dance.

Well I myself find it ridiculous, but what else can we await of a world of macho's who eat to much bomba and other steroids and have only one brain who works, the one below the corda...

To go back to the topic, olimpics or not, or fighting or not...

It is something personal I guess. Everyone will have it's own oppinion, then everyone does it out an idea, some
to fight, some to add capoeira into theyr other martial arts to sparring, some as hobby, some to stay fit as fitness,
well there are so many reasons...

I myself always think, the winner is the one who can avoid a fight. Then I know every brasilian will say to me, you understoood nothing about capoeira, I was allready told many times, but I am who I am, and who thinks he is better cause he gave someone a rasteira or broke anothers leg, nose or who knows even killed a guy then I have pity for him....

Capoeira is misunderstood by those who claim does she is theyrs, but I hope time will change one day. It is them who are working against the name of capoeira and use it for theyr private ambitions... and in the end beore they say good bye to this world they will realize, not them used capoeira but capoeira used them, it was here before all of us and it will be here after all of us....

Like preguiça allready posted, the meaning was freedom, they call it so much the dance/fight for liberation and freedom... if there is a fight now, then the one of the pupils against theyr mestres cause they like to make out us theyr slaves....