Opinion of all of you counts, so please check and share...

[Bruno]

So, I am glad to see Capoeira Espaço finally reached over 1000 members.
Something me and Jon tought will happen by end of 2007 actually...

I have been on and off Capoeira world and am working on social projects
aswell with children (in orphanatories). I do would like to see it happen
does Capoeira will be integrated in Europe as project to help children,
but not only integrated, more recognised as a Therapy method and also
learning method for children.

I have alot paperwork done, but there are basic things I don't like, basic
things who are actually against the fundaments and philosophy but still they
are used...

I would like the opinion on the following topics of this community.
Please, no arguing, objectivity and contructivity needed here about the views of others,
remember we are not all part of same group, and each group speaks about an "own" philosophy
and each groups teaches different...

Topics to discuss and I need your opinions:

- Cordas, cordel, cinto... whatever you want to call it. I know Angola don't uses them.
Input to create the discussion:
Are they needed? Does colors define who you are?
(why I ask, well, simple. Are we going back to white and black? Or better, how many times in a meeting you met guys who look at the color of your corda then depending if high or not they will talk with you or not... Another reason I ask is, till the Industrialization of Capoeira most groups had 7 cordas and now bazillions... I mean... Batizado=money, troca de corda=money aswell...)

- Titles... Mestre, Contramestre, Professor, Estagiario, Treinel, Monitor, Graduado etc.... millions...
Input:
are titles needed? don't we deserve respect by the person we are? by the work we do?
are we not all able to choose whom we look up into, whom we respect?
(I know this is prolly the most critical question, but simple. I wont teach any kid to make out a person a GOD, yes. I have seen in so many Events how people raises Mestres and Professores to status of God... what happens? Most of those Mestres forget theyr roots and start to make use of the system and make use of the submissive european, american, asian, african... well all who are not in Brasil... yes, sorry ladies... but... I seen many things and you know what I mean... heh... and guys... find yourselves and don't dream about be someone who has 24h a day time for just train flips at the beach in Brasil)

-Apelidos/nicknames
Input:
My name was given by my parents when I was born. Don't know about others but...
Capoeira is nomore pursued, the identity is nomore to be kept secret, so I don't see reason
for apelidos nomore, sorry. If capoeira has to evolve then in my view it means also evolve out
the bad things from the time of slavery. I seen allready groups who just give random names like Francisco, Abel, Manuel etc... since all the cool are allready spread out, like how many borboletas, girassol, sereias etc. out there? Even if you ask for mestres, it's allready like, you mean that one or the one from there or the one from.... And how many dream of a cool name?

Last topic - a personal description for Capoeira of each of you.
In the end I will post mine, so you all will understand why I wanted it.

I thank allready now everyone who will participate in this, I know those topics are
usually TABU, but well someone is needed to speak about them open and not always
behind the back of those who could hear it...


Bruno

[Jon]

- Cordas, cordel, cinto...
Are they needed? Does colors define who you are?
No color does not define anything, as i have seen plenty of people hold higher cords but play as if they are really a couple cords lower that they are ranked. It's all a matter of how much you train... and if you ask me capoeira is suppose to be an art of deception why not just get ride of the whole cord system and stay true to it's origins... i think it will be a great learning experience for students to try and figure out who is what level by just playing with that person or seeing their game... i think you will learn something about not under-estimate anyone and always be prepared. Ofcoarse the much experienced player would already know how to deal with a younger player by simply not hurting them and just teaching them a lesson in the roda.



- Titles... Mestre, Contramestre, Professor, Estagiario, Treinel, Monitor, Graduado etc.... millions...
Input:
are titles needed? don't we deserve respect by the person we are? by the work we do?
are we not all able to choose whom we look up into, whom we respect?

I think the only title there should be is only that in which we decide to call our teachers... how we personally come to respect our teachers. If we chose to call someone a Master then they are our Master, not everyone's Master. If we chose to call someone a good teacher, then thats what they are for us... why should we call someone MASTER if they have yet to even earn our respect and trust... it seems like its a requirement imposed upon us as students to address the more experienced as this or that TITLE... why should we...? being told how to address someone else is another hierarchy system of control and power... it's funny how man can come to express on the surface that something is created and practiced for freedom from oppression, but yet he continue to oppress by forming and designing a systems of sharing this practice based on ego...


-Apelidos/nicknames
There is only one person I know that has given capoeira names to his students purely based on his understanding and cafeful observation of their personality and expression through capoeira...

if you are not giving someone a nick name based on this, then please don't just simply hand someone a nick name just because.... it's very insulting and degrading... i've seen someone receive a nickname that is totally based on his\her looks during a batizado... how does this make any sense at all? We don't need capoeira names anymore, but receiving a nick name wither its from capoeira or not that represents us in one word is always nice...


Last topic - a personal description for Capoeira

Capoeira is microcosm of Life... simple.. Capoeira is simply another manifestation of the human spirits need to become one.

I have realized that if we take a minute to research different religions and human spiritual beliefs, we find that they all speak of some form of oneness...

I personally believe that all human thoughts and actions are rooted in this one shared desire... oneness... and everything we create and destroy stems from it...

[Tira-Gosto]

- Cordas, cordel, cinto... whatever you want to call it. I know Angola don't uses them.
Input to create the discussion:
Are they needed? Does colors define who you are?
Yes and No and some maybe.
When you're in the roda, do you wear black or white abada?;
when you're on the street playing the game barefooted or not, do you even wear your abada?;
when you meet your camaran, do you even axe each and everyone of them?;
black white yellow and blue no matter what color it is, do you even care if you wears a cardel when you're in the game or while practice.



- Titles... Mestre, Contramestre, Professor, Estagiario, Treinel, Monitor, Graduado etc.... millions...
Input:
are titles needed? don't we deserve respect by the person we are? by the work we do?
are we not all able to choose whom we look up into, whom we respect?
The answer are still very easy,
it's all up to you to choose for, if you want others to look up to you or respect you, or for you to look up to a person whoever it is. It's your life, no one is running it for you.

-Apelidos/nicknames
Input:
I did dreamt of cool names when i was new to the game, but what are nicknames for if it only tells what you desired to be but not exactly who you are.
I'm Tira-Gosto, a brazillian snack.
My friend was a Pineapple
There's another one who's call "Late", and "Alphabet" and so on.
I know there's a Spaghetti here.
as far as i know, the name is you. and What can you do about it, what will you do about it?

Last topic - a personal description for Capoeira of each of you.
In the end I will post mine, so you all will understand why I wanted it.

i know i posted something like this in another thread

Capoeira came to me without a Name, i never knew what it was at all.
Unknowingly a friend introduced it to me with her know nothing at all.
So i went into the game with me not knowing its name but the rhythm .
Without the rhythm there will be no King, there will be no Roda, there will be no Capoeira.

Capoeira is a Culture whom my teacher always reminds us about in almost every time,
A philosophy maybe, not just a game/art, but/and/or a lifestyle if you will it.
Most will know what it is, for those who doesn't it's call something.
Even though the idea is of yesteryear, but the world is not a Venus yet.

Agua de beber, camaran ;D

[Sean -Sapo-]

- Cordas, cordel, cinto: - The cord system has always been a formalization of what used to be a very organic growth of a student. I feel it has a purpose. It gives newer students something tangible to strive for. I think, it can be difficult for new students who haven't fully delved into capoeira, to get into it without a formalization like the cord system, unless it is a one on one with a teacher.

My professor says something like... "Your cord is everything. But it is also nothing." It represents all the hours of sweat and work you put into your training. It is the realization of a goal. But at the same time, it is merely a piece of rope. Without the cord, you are still who you are and nothing can ever take that away.

Only after a little digging into capoeira, that you truly understand how it is just a formality, a ceremony. It is a ritual. It gives us a history. But the only one who can really say how you are progressing is your game.

At the same time, there is the issue of perception. I've seen some strange consequence of young teachers who don't wear cords get disrespected by students who don't know them. Theres also the issue of trash talk, about how someone with a certain cord isn't good enough for it. I guess this is the bad side of it.

- Titles I've found that the title of Mestre merely means a person truly qualified to teach capoeira. I do not believe that any person can be truly the "master" of anything. There will always be something to learn and even masters can learn.

To acknowledge a teacher means to give another person authority over you. To teach you, you must acknowledge that they know more than you, and it seems insubordinate to not at least let have the teacher have authority over you, at least in whatever it is you are trying to learn. This also follows through with respect.

This is not to say we worship them as persons higher than ourselves. There is respect as a person and then respect as a capoeira mestre. I consider the teacher and student relationship to be a professional one. Outside of class and the roda, they are our friends and elders. If you are hosting a mestre, he is your guest and should be treated as such.

Some people have too much "hero worship" and some mestres take advantage of this. As such I feel that titles are needed, but we shouldn't hold them over our heads OUTSIDE of the capoeira roda.


-Apelidos/nicknames Hmmn...for apelidos, I say, it's just tradition. It helps to draw you into the capoeira culture more and brings a sense of belonging (is that a word?). Plus its a great conversation starter. Even though capoeira is no longer being pursued, I feel like the nicknames help to define our "capoeira identity".

Although....a few exist for students who's names are difficult to pronounce in portuguese. I know a few who got nicknames just so that mestres during their batizados wouldn't give em dumb names. I know capoeristas who never use their apelidos. At the same time I'm sure you know a mestre or two who don't even have an apelido.

That being said, I think a lot of names are just...kinda lame. A lot of them are based on superflous physical traits like build, hair, skin, etc. I've been told the nicknames are supposed to be jokes about you. The apelidos were never "cool".

However theres some times when the names are truly appropriate. Names that are hard to disassociate from the person because it fits so well.

Myself, my nickname jumped around from Gafonhoto (grasshopper), Pipoca (popcorn), Aranha(spider) and finally to Sapo (frog). And by jumped around, it was a description of my game. I have a very jumpy/hoppy game. I wasn't thrilled to get Sapo. But as I continued capoeira, the name began to suit me more and more. It wasn't only a description for my game, but my overall posture, mannerisms, and my looks, and now I sing well (for a gringo, i think) and loud.


-A personal description for Capoeira of each of you. Capoeira is life. Simply. All of us are playing capoeira wether we know it or not. Wether we call it capoeira or not.

Life has a rhythm we must follow. Day follows night. Summer follows spring. Death follows Life.
Leaves swaying in the wind. Rain drumming on a ground. The ocean splashing. Eb and flow. Constant motion.
The rhythms dictate how we must act. The rhythm of childhood, adolescent, adulthood, and beyond.
Believe or not, we dance a dance and avoid dangers in our daily lives constantly.
We must react. We must talk. We must listen.
We must show respect. We must not take disrespect lightly.
We must attack. We must defend.
We must learn to flow and change directions to deal with the unexpected.

Capoeira is an incarnation of life, a feeble attempt to encompass life and the universe into a roda with friends clapping, in a minute long game that lasts forever. Thats capoeira to me.

[Jon]

nice bro, very nice response!

[Ze Belchior]

Hey Bruno,

I like the thought process,

I look at Capoeira as symbolizing my life. I feel that the cordels bring some structure to Capoeira like money signifies success in our worldly lives. If you want to show your money off to the world you can, just like you can show your cordel off in the roda / class. But i feel it is a tangible way to measure my success in my capoeira world..

I would not like to comment about the titles but like Mestre Nestor Capoeira puts it... you are not really a Mestre untill someone else acknowledges you to be one.

Apelidos if need to be given again is optional, yes it was given in a bad period in time for Capoeira but in my view we should not let the bad times of slavery be forgotten. Despite the torture, and subsequent suppression the Art of Capoeira evolved and has become what we love today so no we should not evolve out the bad.